Crossofstgeorge Debate

[Hotspur]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/scotland/7888795/Scots-should-forget-about-flying-the-flag-and-fix-their-nation.html

Scots should forget about flying the flag and fix their nation
Holyrood has enough power and money to stop economic decline north of the border, says Neil O'Brien.

Published: 10:35PM BST 13 Jul 2010


Holyrood has enough power and money to stop economic decline north of the border, says Neil O'Brien. Photo: David Cheskin/PA Wire Scotland has become a stag-nation. Over the past decade, its economy, which was already struggling, has fallen further behind the rest of the UK’s: if it had kept up with the average, it would be 5 per cent bigger. Public services have suffered, too. Education, which used to be its pride and joy, has been left to rust. Scotland opted out of reforms like the academies programme, with the result that the proportion of secondary pupils getting good grades has increased by just 1 per cent, against 8 per cent in England. In health, waiting times have remained static, despite falling by two thirds down south.

The problem isn’t a lack of funds: state spending as a share of the economy is about 12 per cent higher. The truth is that Scottish taxpayers are getting less for more. Sadly, instead of addressing these issues, the political class is locked in an unending constitutional wrangle about the details of devolution.


The answer to all Scotland’s problems, some claim, is more constitutional change. But politicians have all the powers they need. The Scottish Parliament controls 61 per cent of public spending, equivalent to 29 per cent of GDP. The Scottish Executive has de facto control over a range of taxes, not just the power to vary income tax by 3p – in fact, it has far more latitude to increase or decrease taxation than it is ever likely to wish to use.

Holyrood has unlimited leeway to reform public services, including health and education. It has powerful tools to accelerate economic growth: it controls higher and further education, the planning system, and finance for transport and infrastructure. Thanks to public-private partnerships, it can borrow vast amounts.

The other great distraction is the Barnett Formula, which nationalists on both side of the border will happily bore you to death about. To cut a long story short, the reason why Scotland’s funding has been kept so high is now based on politics, not poverty.

At heart, Barnett – which is under review – is about Scotland getting its oil revenue back. Although the Exchequer’s income from the North Sea has fluctuated, it has, on average, approximated to the Barnett “premium”. Public spending in Scotland is some £12.3 billion higher than taxation – but the Scottish element of oil revenues comes to £11.8 billion. In effect, Scotland gets back every penny (and more) of its oil money, and in a form that does not fluctuate with oil prices.

So if it isn’t a lack of power or money that is causing Scotland’s problems, what is to blame? As Tom Miers points out in a Policy Exchange report, published today, there is a conspiracy of inaction at work. The Nationalists have a powerful motive to avoid economic or social reform, because it strengthens the case for constitutional change. For the architects of devolution, including many in the Labour Party, the Scottish Parliament was designed to insulate Scotland from reforms instigated by the government in London. Meanwhile, those who opposed devolution want to remain engaged in Scotland, and are reluctant to rock the boat by suggesting a new approach.

This inaction is encouraged by hostility to Westminster’s reforms, which are rejected as Thatcherite, even if implemented by Labour. Ideas that originate in much-admired nations such as Sweden are abhorred if they gain credence in England, as happened with free schools.

I supported devolution, and still do. But it hasn’t led to the changes I hoped. We need to draw a line under the debate by implementing the proposals of the Calman Commission, which emphasised Scotland’s existing powers rather than advocating a significant extension. Then the focus can move to what to do about the real problems.

One idea would be to channel some Barnett money into job-creating tax cuts, rather than using it to increase spending, But that will never happen until we break the political deadlock holding Scotland back. Many Scots have centre-Right attitudes, but the Scottish Conservatives only won a single seat. Labour’s election broadcasts – with their dated attacks on Thatcherism and grainy footage of the poll tax riots – were a reminder of just what a ball and chain the word “Conservative” still is in Scotland.

The only conclusion is that Edinburgh needs a new centre-Right force, and that Scotland’s political class need to be sent a powerful message: stop blethering, and get on with it.

Neil O’Brien is the director of Policy Exchange. 'The Devolution Distraction’ by Tom Miers is published on July 14th.
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Lord Hugh Cecil 1918



"the truth is that colouring federalism with nationalism is like painting a rat red: it kills the animal.

Federalism and Nationalism are contradictory and mutually Fatal".

[HomeRuleforEngland]

Why are people always so concerned about Scotland's problems? What about England's problem? One thing is clear. England would be better off without Scotland, Wales and those yobs over in N.Ireland!
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The don't like it up em!

[Lance Dragon]

We should cut the Celts loose.

The Paddies have started kincking off again. 70% of the N. Irish economy is public sector. Money down the drain. Time for the "Celtic Tigers" to pick up their own bills.

We never needed them and we don't need 'em now.
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RBS - Robbed by Scots
The deadliest enemies of the English are the British
Better a "Sour Little Englander" than a Poisonous Wee J ock.

[HomeRuleforEngland]

100% LD.
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The don't like it up em!

[shan]

[HomeRuleforEngland]

So Shan are you saying that the English and the rest of the British should stay in N.Ireland and in fact should never have allowed the Republic or for that matter any country of the Empire its independence?
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The don't like it up em!

[shan]

Not at all. I am saying the situation is very complex and that Britain will find it very difficult to just walk away after they've sucked a place dry as they are used to doing because all of the people in Northern Ireland are entitled to British Citizenship and the majority avail of that right.

If you were to ignore the vested interests and the importance of Northern Ireland over the years to successive British Governments you would say they made a huge mistake in the 1920's not leaving Ireland to it's own devices at a time when nobody would question their methods or motives. Times are different now and Britain cannot be seen to abandon 1 million of its own citizens. Some people in NI naturally take advantage of this fact knowing as they do that the taxpayers of England pay for the the desires of the British Elite as indeed do we in Ireland for our own Elite.

What would really be great is if a timescale could be set for the transfer of power and then we could all work towards that and iron out all the issues before Britain could finally bid farewell to its time in Ireland. Once the train is in motion things would have to click into place. Sounds simple but of course it is not. It is certainly better to have a plan though and light at the end of the tunnel rather than what has been going on for years with English money pumped into keeping NI British with no actual benefits for the taxpayer that I can see. I believe a lot of English people are smart enough to know that 10 billion per year for the next 10 years towards the ending of British Rule in Ireland and the long term benefits gained is better than 10 billion per year indefinitely for no discernable advantage. This could also be the kick-start to English Independence which would also be great.

The Belfast Agreement doesn't go far enough because giving somebody a safety blanket causes them to abdicate responsibility for themselves.

I wish the English people, as the majority within the current UK, could exercise some power and force their politicians to do what is ultimately for the benefit of England. As we all know this cannot happen as successive Governments have spent their time ensuring that English taxpayers and citizens have no power at all within the British Political system. Such is life and leaves us in the situation we are now in. It also highlights the very important point I've been outlining that the problems in Ireland, and England to be fair, are entirely the making of the British Government and their masters.

[HomeRuleforEngland]

The key is of course for England to leave the UK which we are as entitled to do as is any other UK nation.
I hope this happens as is doesn't look like the Scottish or Welsh or N.Irish are going to leave.
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The don't like it up em!

[Lance Dragon]

The history of these islands is far more complicated than you portray Shan, and you know it.

When Cromwell spoke of the "rebellious Irish" he meant those settled in the North West of England, for example.

The Irish have been invading Great Britain for time immemorial. St Patrick was kidnapped from what is now England.

England has been surrounded by enemies for centuries and we have fought off all-comers. That's why we are hated. We won.
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RBS - Robbed by Scots
The deadliest enemies of the English are the British
Better a "Sour Little Englander" than a Poisonous Wee J ock.

[shan]

[Northumbrian]

[HomeRuleforEngland]

[Sunnyjim]

Shan wrote:

[Lance Dragon]

The British State has reneged on its responsibilty to the English.

From cancer drugs to democracy the English have been dumped on.

Irishman George Bernard Shaw, when taking time out from taking the piss out of the English while living in England, said "the first country to be colonised by the British Empire was England".
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RBS - Robbed by Scots
The deadliest enemies of the English are the British
Better a "Sour Little Englander" than a Poisonous Wee J ock.

[Little_Englander]

Respectable, Democratic Irish republican opinion would appear to be better served, if it stopped hating the English, (as, (supposedly), sole perpetrators of the evils of the British Empire), long enough to realise that English independence would play into its hand.
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Little Englander?
Wear the label with pride.