Crossofstgeorge Debate

[Hotspur]

http://www.opendemocracy.net/democracy-opening/trust_3030.jsp


I am a member of parliament for Birmingham in England’s west Midlands. I was born in Germany and came to this country over thirty years ago. I represent some 70,000 voters, who are proud of the fact that they don’t have to be born a Brummie, but can choose to be a Brummie. They understand it when I describe myself as German by birth, but British by choice. At election time, when I am attacked for being German, my vote goes up.

Yet it has only been in the last five years or so that I have heard people in my constituency telling me, “I am not British – I am English”. That worries me. British identity is based on and anchored in its political and legal institutions and this enables it to take in new entrants more easily than it would be if being a member of a nation were to be defined by blood. But a democratic polity will only work if citizens’ identification is with the community as a whole, or at least with the shared process, which overrides their loyalty to a segment.
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Lord Hugh Cecil 1918



"the truth is that colouring federalism with nationalism is like painting a rat red: it kills the animal.

Federalism and Nationalism are contradictory and mutually Fatal".

[RevinKevin]

The Birmingham Post want to print my email to them about this.
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English not British

[isca]

Funny! When she stood as a candidate in 1997, she used her German surname, but started to use the surname Stuart very soon after having been elected. I am not aware that she was married either soon before or after the 1997 General Election! I guessed that she'd been advised to change her name (can't really say 'anglicize' with a name like Stuart!) by New Labour's spin doctors - just as, much earlier, Kinnock was advised to cut his hair & stop slarping it over his head like Arthur Scargill!

Also, are we to believe that she has absolutely no Scottish or Welsh or Irish or Muslim or Sikh or Hindhu or Pakistani (or other nationality) constituents - not one? We know she must have, but somehow that doesn't "worry" her!

Therefore, one may reasonably conclude that it is ONLY the English realising their English identity which worries her! In my opinion, this is yet another example of anti-Englishness wrapped up in counterfeit concern.

I would want Gisella Stuart to know that we are happy for her to come and live amongst us, even adopt British citizenship, but that does not mean that we want her to sit in our legislature, be part of our Government and allegedly "represent" us in EU negotiations! Her compatriots were given no vote about adopting the Euro or the so called EU Constitution - those measures were forced on the Germans by their Government.

If she really wanted to do something useful, she could return to Germany, and attempt to introduce more real democracy there, instead of coming here and abusing our democracy, inadequate as it also is!

[Aslan]

It is a load of bunkum.

If she called herself German and was proud to be so then where does that leave immigrants who move to Germany.....are they German???? I realise that Turks have a particular problem, but I assume you can become a naturalised German if your application for citizenship is accepted.

Where the hell is the difference?? If you want to live in England and are granted English citizenship then you can become English.......so what's the issue.

It is the peculiarity of the British scenario that makes the English both English and British ( Scots and British/Welsh and British).

The Labour party have created devolution - they are more than happy for the Welsh and Scottish to go their own way culturally - so what is wrong with the English wanting to be known as English. For goodness sake even Commission for Racial Equality confirmed this trend.

The woman is opening her mouth without thinking of the logic of what she is saying.

If we were to turn round and say that German's could no longer be known as German's because that deflected from their commitment to a European identity they would laugh at us - if we said it to the French they would probably fire bullets at us - you say it to the English - you shouldn't call youself English - you must call yourself British and that is seen as perfectly reasonable ....some serious education still needs to take place - New Labour are completely mad and Gisella (whatever her name is) tops the list!

[bluearmyboy]

I saw her article so I have just sent her this email. Hope she reads it.

Dear Ms. Stuart

I read a short extract from your recent article (I think it was an article of yours) when you noted that increasing number of your constituents now say "I am not British - I am English". As someone who is NOT a constituent of yours (I live in Rugby) but I AM one an increasing number of people who are using the phrase above. If I may, let me try and explain why I and many of my fellow Countrymen (and women) are feeling this way.

The core of it is that we feel unfairly treated, mostly it has to be said by your party.

We have no national government, we have no national anthem of our own, we have no capital city. We are run by Scots. The BBC, the state broadcaster, underepresents English people on both TV and Radio.

We DO feel swamped by people from other lands who appear to not want to integrate and select the aspects of both their old "lands" and new "lands" to suit themselves. If we raise these issues we are called racists and little Englanders, if other voice similar concerns they are called patriotic and plucky!

I converse with many people and there is truly a growing resentment of your governments headlong pursuit of multiculturism. We have never been asked whether we want multiculturism by the way. I for one want single culturism. This is not racist I just believe that if one chooses to move to a Country you adopt wholeheartedly the norms, customs, beliefs and language of your new home. I would guess in exactly the same you have. If I went to Pakistan or Australia or wherever I would make it my business to integrate fully with that societies ways. If I wasn't prepared to do this then I should not go and certainly not seek to change the standards of that Country.

Not sure if this helps, I am sure you have heard it many times before!.

Unless we do address the real concerns of many people of this Country (England) I fear that we too will face real danger of social breakdown as sadly you have seen recently in your own City and of course in many cities across France.

Kind regards

[isca]

I sent the following email to her Parliamentary address:

[Aslan]

Nice one Harold - being innumerate is yet another "skill" of the Labour party - well done for spotting it!

[isca]

Yes! Is this yet more New Labour spin? In which case it is deliberate misrepresentation! Or is it incompetence?

Either way it is not a recommendation for any form of public office!

[Versus]

[Adelhed]

her wbsite:

http://www.giselastuartmp.co.uk/

[isca]

Versus said:

[Northumbrian]

Why does anyone vote for any of the main parties at elections?

Apart from the ones who vote for a party because their father and grandfather did, they either vote for a party which improves public services (Labour?) or who reduces tax (Conservative?).

Exciting - eh?

[isca]

Without wishing to stray from the main thrust of this topic, may I suggest that what is becoming increasingly more interesting is why so many voters (since 2001) have declined to participate in the sole formal political process remaining for them to 'perform' in? Perhaps a route to more constructive democratic progress is to be found here, rather than analysing how many voters & their predecessors have traditionally voted.

[Aslan]

That is particularly relevant when Labour has received the lowest vote ever recorded! However, they are so full of spin they will try and make this into a success.

[Adelhed]

I'm going to e-mail her and accuse her of racism,just like her Nazi forebears.Lets turn the tables on her and her ilk,who are too ready to accuse the likes of us as being racists.
You know,I'm really find her remarks as offensive and insulting!